Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey, welcome to CC Midweek. I am very excited because we're going to do a special conversation.
Something I have learned about myself is that I learn most when I can ask questions. And I think that's true of a lot of people.
And you've been my mentor now for 20 years.
A lot more heavily mentored in the last five, six years. But one of the gifts is I get to ask you questions.
And we have been doing a series on the Holy Spirit, how you discern the voice of God. I think so many people long to know the will of God and know what he wants for your life. But it can be confusing. Is it God's voice or is it my voice? Is it God warning me against something, or is it my anxiety? Is it a sign from above that this is how I should go? Or am I just looking for what I really want most?
And so today, I want to close out the series with this conversation. So thank you so much.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:01:08] Speaker A: You look very cool.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:01:10] Speaker A: I love your white leather jacket.
[00:01:11] Speaker B: You have good taste.
[00:01:14] Speaker A: Okay, so I want to start with reading John 14:26, because it gives us a very clear idea of how God works through the Holy Spirit inside of us.
I'm going to read it, and then would you help us with some of the words so that we can have better understanding?
[00:01:41] Speaker B: All right.
[00:01:42] Speaker A: Okay. So John 14:26.
But the helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name. This is Jesus talking.
He will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
I think through scripture you see that God speaks to his people in many different ways.
What's one of your favorite ways that God spoke to his people through. Through scripture.
[00:02:13] Speaker B: There's a wonderful passage in the life of Elijah.
Elijah flees from Jezebel and goes to Mount Sinai, and he's in a cave there, and there is a horrendous thunderstorm, but the voice of the Lord was not in the thunderstorm. Yeah, there was an earthquake, but the voice of the Lord was not in the earthquake.
And then there's this beautiful phrase, and there was a still, small voice.
And the word of the Lord was in the still, small voice.
[00:02:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:56] Speaker B: I think that's awesome.
[00:02:57] Speaker A: Yeah. You see God work in so many different ways. You get the garden. I think I'm most jealous of the garden.
They got to walk with God, talk with him.
You see God show up in the burning bush for Moses and a pillar of a cloud by day and fire by night. And I think part of me longs to have a pillar of fire that just would be like, here, Sarah, this is the way I am leading you. Head that way.
Just the extreme clarity that it seems they had. And then you get prophets and messengers, angels. And then there is this wonderful shift that happens that God works in a very powerful way through the Holy Spirit and Scripture. For us today, when you think about hearing the voice of God, what has that looked like in your life? Very tangibly,
[00:04:08] Speaker B: Actually.
We are more blessed than these Old Testament people.
[00:04:15] Speaker A: Okay, tell me about it.
[00:04:17] Speaker B: So, for example, you mentioned the pillar of fire and the pillar of cloud.
It didn't persuade them at all.
That whole generation died in the wilderness because they wouldn't obey.
I would rather have the Holy Spirit and the scriptures that I can look at every single day than a miraculous event once in a while.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: And I think that's where we get lost, is we're looking for this big, giant event. We're looking for the miraculous. But life is made up of everyday moments, day in and day out. And I was reading a book, discerning the Voice of God by Priscilla Shire.
And she said people back then would long for what we have right now.
[00:05:08] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:05:08] Speaker A: The gift of God within, guiding and directing. So when you look at this word in the original Greek, dad, it says, but the helper, the Holy Spirit. What. What's the word there?
[00:05:20] Speaker B: So it's parakletos, which is actually a compound word. The para means beside and kale means I call the one who is called beside us the presence of God.
And then he gets the. The. The designation, the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the person of God who is called beside us. And then he does two things. He teaches us and he brings to our remembrance.
[00:05:58] Speaker A: I want to.
I hear stories stick more than just talking. And so when you think of the one who is called beside us, give me an image that will stick in my mind.
Give me. I've heard it said like a lawyer who will come and defend, or a counselor who will come and heal, or a coach who will come and call what's best out of you? What's an image? When you think of the Holy Spirit, that is helpful to you.
[00:06:30] Speaker B: So how about.
Because the Holy Spirit is a spirit and not visible, how about trying to sense him in another way other than a visual image? Okay, so for example, the band is playing and the Holy Spirit is moving and you sense the presence of God. That's the Holy Spirit.
Or you're reading your Bible and you come across something and it feels like it's God's Talking to you right there.
[00:07:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:18] Speaker B: That's the Holy Spirit.
Or you're fussing with your spouse and you think you need to go say you're sorry and make this right.
That's the Holy Spirit.
So I don't want. I.
I want to escape the visible images, and I want to think about. I'm not going to sense the Holy Spirit in a visible way, but I am going to sense him in a tangible way, and my soul can more and more recognize this is the Holy Spirit.
[00:07:59] Speaker A: Okay. So you've been a follower of God your whole life, a pastor in this church for 45 years, leading the way.
How have you most profoundly heard the voice of God in your life, and has it changed through the years?
[00:08:18] Speaker B: It's been most profoundly through the scriptures.
When I was 18. You know this story. When I was 18, I was having my devotions at night, and I was reading in Isaiah passage.
And back then I just read the King James Bible.
[00:08:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:42] Speaker B: And I just came across a passage in Isaiah in my natural reading.
[00:08:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:49] Speaker B: That said, thou, whom I have taken from the ends of the earth and called from the remotest parts thereof, and said unto thee I have chosen thee and not cast thee away, Fear thou not, for I am with thee. I will help thee, I will strengthen thee. Yea, I will hold with my righteous right hand. Okay.
That. The Holy Spirit made that sound to me like God was saying that to me right there.
[00:09:16] Speaker A: Right.
What's the last thing you've heard from God in that way?
[00:09:27] Speaker B: Well, I'm praying a lot and doing some saturation Bible reading about some transitions I'm going to make in my own life.
And that's.
I want to follow him to the very last day.
[00:09:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:47] Speaker B: I don't have any intentions of retiring from walking with God, being a man of God.
[00:09:56] Speaker A: Right.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: But I do have intentions on how to do it differently.
So I'm seeking a whisper from God on how I can.
How I can be the man of God in my 70s that I was in my 30s.
[00:10:22] Speaker A: Dare I say you are more.
Skilled and brilliant. And we had a staff planning session last week where all the staff got together and were planning for the year. And dad opens each of those sessions up, and it was like we were ruined for the rest of the day in the best way possible.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: Well, thank you.
[00:10:46] Speaker A: Because you have a way of reading scripture and lifting, and it is.
It's the anointing of God. He is using you to help call out what's best in us.
And so. Thank you. Thank you very much.
[00:11:00] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:11:00] Speaker A: Okay. So let me ask you this. How when you go to Scripture, then number one way, you hear from God?
[00:11:09] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:11:09] Speaker A: I would agree totally.
In my life, it is the number one way. If you're not a reader, do it anyways.
If you're confused by the Bible, keep reading. Because one of the things the Holy Spirit does is he teaches us.
[00:11:25] Speaker B: Yes, he does.
[00:11:25] Speaker A: And so do you think he enlightens our heart to understand scripture in different ways at different times?
[00:11:32] Speaker B: Yes, I do.
[00:11:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:34] Speaker B: When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.
[00:11:37] Speaker A: He would say that to me all the time.
The student wasn't ready for a very long time.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: I.
I can read something.
So I'm, I'm. I think I told you I'm doing this saturation Bible reading.
So I'm reading through the New Testament once a month. Okay. I can read the passage that I read last month and this month. The Holy Spirit has me in a different place.
[00:12:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:09] Speaker B: And. And it just strikes me differently.
[00:12:12] Speaker A: For sure.
[00:12:13] Speaker B: The Holy Spirit has pushed me into a new place. So the scripture hits me in a different way.
[00:12:20] Speaker A: Yeah. I've even found when I was younger, an Ezekiel passage stood out to me and I could not understand it, but I just marked it and I would come back to it every year.
And it took me until I was in my 40s for the realization of what God was trying to say. And I found that in my 20s.
And so for over more than a decade, decade and a half, whatever it was, I was reading a scripture that it. I knew God was trying to tell me something, but the student was not ready.
And so I just highly recommend Scripture is the number one way you are going to hear from God. The Holy Spirit will use it and enlighten us and help us to understand.
We talk to a lot of young kids in this service. So a lot of 20 somethings kids in high school, kids who are away at college will be watching this.
And I think oftentimes they're praying for something and something will show up. Let's just use an example of you're praying for a godly man or a godly woman and you want a relationship so bad.
And some of the qualities of this person who's asked you out is the exact things you were praying for. And it can feel like a sign, like so many young kids are looking for a sign from God or affirmation to the things that they want, and then it turns out that that's not their person and so they feel uneasy about their relationship with God.
I can still do this. I can be presumptuous about God at times.
And so what would you say to a young person who's praying and seeking and looking for the signs and looking for the things that will guide them to the one?
[00:14:16] Speaker B: Okay, first of all, I would stop looking for signs.
I would let go of the mystery.
And the Bible describes what a good person is like.
The Bible describes what genuine love is like.
I would recommend that they start looking at some of these passages like First Corinthians 13.
How do I know if I really love this person? Well, First Corinthians 13 says this is what real love looks like. And I can use that as a checklist.
Do I really feel that?
[00:14:59] Speaker A: Yeah,
[00:15:02] Speaker B: I can look at.
[00:15:04] Speaker A: And it's love is patient, love is kind. And so you're looking for a love that is not forcing you to do things you don't want to do, or a love that's making you move too fast or a love that is good enough. You know, like you don't. You're just sick of being lonely. And so. But you're shaping what love looks like based on the scripture that God has, based on things that we can define. It's not obscure, it's not mysterious.
[00:15:35] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:15:36] Speaker A: And I think that's something you've done for me, is you read these Bible stories and you think it was the norm.
But talk to me about that for a minute.
[00:15:46] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:15:46] Speaker A: The experiences in scripture, it feels like that's just how it was during that time.
But you're.
[00:15:54] Speaker B: But really they are the mountain peaks. They're not the day to day pathway.
Moses did go up on Mount Sinai and his face did glow, but that passed relatively quickly and he had 40 years to lead the people in the wilderness.
[00:16:20] Speaker A: And you never see it again.
[00:16:22] Speaker B: And you never see it again.
[00:16:23] Speaker A: Joshua. We never hear of Joshua's face glowing or another burning bush or.
[00:16:29] Speaker B: Yeah, so those are not meant to be a normative.
They're meant to say sometimes God has to break through.
And when he does, this is what it looks like.
Back to who should I date the fruit of the Spirit?
You can take the Galatians passage and you can look at those qualities and say, these are the qualities I'm looking for in a person.
We can do this. Just the opposite.
We can say, do I love this person enough that I want to treat them this way every day?
Do you see?
[00:17:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
Because that is love.
[00:17:16] Speaker B: That is love.
[00:17:17] Speaker A: It is a selflessness.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: Not are they going to treat me this way every day?
[00:17:21] Speaker A: Right.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: But do I love this person enough that I'm going To be gentle and kind and gracious.
I'm going to be patient.
[00:17:30] Speaker A: So when we're talking to people in relationship, should I marry them? Should I not marry them?
I'm seeking God for that, but I don't have total clarity. I don't hear a yes or a no or her magic eight ball. Like what happens when you are seeking God, truly seeking him, but you don't hear a clear yes or no? What would you recommend?
[00:17:58] Speaker B: Then? I say, God is predictable.
Okay, Everyone who is dating, this is important.
You date to figure out if you're compatible.
You don't get married on your first date.
You spend time together and you learn what kind of person this person is.
And you learn, how does my hard wiring from God relate to their hard wiring from God?
And dating has to be a. Not just a feeling process.
[00:18:39] Speaker A: Yeah, that's the.
[00:18:39] Speaker B: It has to be a thinking process too.
[00:18:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:42] Speaker B: I've had people who are dating come to me for counseling and I've said, if you have to go to counseling when you're dating, that should be a flashing light on the dashboard that we're probably not compatible.
[00:19:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
Okay.
[00:19:03] Speaker B: So I said all of that to say God gives us all kinds of information without saying he's predictable. Yeah, without saying yes or no. So God says, this is the kind of person you are.
Then you, this is the kind of person they are. And God says, are you compatible?
God says, these are qualities that will make your life great. Do you want to spend the rest of your life treating this person like that?
And those are not Magic 8 Ball answers. They're just solid, predictable qualities of God.
[00:19:42] Speaker A: And are these the values that you see in this person that you want in your future?
[00:19:49] Speaker B: Right.
[00:19:50] Speaker A: You know, I could talk a lot about that. Maybe we'll do something special for singles or 20 somethings in this kind of realm. Or 30. What? However old you are. But have you ever felt very strongly that God was telling you something and you were wrong?
Because this has happened in my life where it was just like, oh, this is so God. He's so in it.
And it was just wasn't. And it wasn't good or bad. It was just I was wrong. So just. Have you ever had those experiences?
[00:20:21] Speaker B: Yeah, we've. We've all.
But generally when that happens to me, anyway, it was.
I wasn't. Honestly, it fit my agenda.
And because it fit my agenda,
[00:20:40] Speaker A: I
[00:20:44] Speaker B: assumed God was in it.
[00:20:49] Speaker A: Okay, so how, how do you learn from that?
When we feel like God's in something and then he's not, sometimes it can make us feel like God did something personally against us. And I want to help everyone listening to this to have a self awareness.
[00:21:10] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:21:11] Speaker A: That if something I prayed for or something I thought that should be or was isn't.
It's easy to blame God. But that doesn't get us a better answer. It doesn't get us a better healthy thought process.
So help me, what did you learn from those moments where you have assumed or what was the self awareness so that people can try to have it for themselves?
[00:21:39] Speaker B: Here's a story from my life.
We started in Parma and we were in a small little church and the school system sold the building next to us. It was a building and 10 acres. It was an elementary school.
[00:21:59] Speaker A: Yeah. In the middle of the city. So it was like prime real estate
[00:22:02] Speaker B: and right next to our property and it had a parking lot.
It seemed so right for us.
[00:22:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:12] Speaker B: We went over there and laid hands on the building and prayed.
[00:22:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Very holy things. Yeah.
[00:22:18] Speaker B: And I thought for sure we that and you know another.
It got sold to somebody else.
[00:22:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:28] Speaker B: All right.
Ah.
But now when I look back on it, I thank God.
[00:22:35] Speaker A: Right.
[00:22:36] Speaker B: Because if we would have got that property, we would never be here. You never pushed and here is a million times better than there.
[00:22:44] Speaker A: Yeah. We're sitting looking out the back acreage. We are on a property that's what, 32 acres. 32 acres wooded.
[00:22:56] Speaker B: A pond, a fountain in the pond.
[00:22:58] Speaker A: But it's easy to have retrospect. So what I'm asking, dad, is what do you do in the moment?
What? What? How did you lead and rally the team when God sold that and you thought for sure it was yours? How do you rally as not to blame God for what you want most is now not happening? When you don't have the gift of retrospect.
[00:23:21] Speaker B: Okay, first of all, there are some thoughts I will not permit myself to think about God.
Never permit yourself to have low thoughts about God.
Never, ever, ever.
Ah.
I will shout at myself, stop it.
I do not permit myself to have low thoughts about God.
So if I'm disappointed, I'm going to take that moment right there and I'm going to remind myself God is good.
He's been good to me my whole life. He's blessed me in ways beyond I had any right to expect.
He's shown his steadfast love in a multitude of ways. Okay. I've missed him somehow or another, but God is still good.
God is still leading the way.
I believe you probably heard me say before because I can't Find the green pastures. Doesn't mean he can't.
Because I don't know where the still water is. Doesn't mean he doesn't.
[00:24:30] Speaker A: Yeah, that was really good when you said that.
So I explain that for someone.
[00:24:36] Speaker B: So I thought this was a green pasture.
And it turns out it wasn't. It wasn't what I wanted. It wasn't what I expected. It didn't happen the way I want.
So then I have to have faith and say I missed the green pasture, but the good shepherd still knows where it is.
[00:24:56] Speaker A: Yeah. Psalms 23. So good.
Okay. A lot of people listening.
This causes an anxiety in their soul. This causes.
And there's tragic things. You lose someone you love, you have a miscarriage, you don't get the job. You had studied and wanted someone you loved and thought they were the one. They broke up with you. You've been married and they left you. Like there are. There is an anxiety.
And I am a firm believer that our sin doesn't just hurt us, it hurts everyone around us as it does. And that is the misconception of sin is. It's just something I want right now.
But the lasting effect is like a bomb that has shrapnel.
And you had talked in your Sunday sermon, which was so incredibly good. My husband and I talked about it and I just.
So thankful for it. And it's this idea, the law of sin and the law of Christ. And if you haven't watched it, please go watch it. Lex, can you look up the name of that sermon for me from Sunday?
I'll give you the name so you can look it up on YouTube. But we.
When people are struggling in sin, how do you let the voice of God be louder and stronger than the desire and the enticing nature of sin?
Because that's.
I heard you say on Sunday, we're all going to be tempted in some way this week.
But think about the character of God in those moments. And my first thought was often you don't want to think about the character of God. You want to do the thing you shouldn't be doing.
And so can you help someone who's listening for the voice of God, wants to be a good man, wants to be a good woman, but is struggling practically on how to do that.
[00:27:05] Speaker B: Okay, let's talk about a couple of things.
First of all, Walk in the spirit and do not make any provision for the flesh.
So I want to be self aware and I want to know these are the things that tempt me. I know they do.
They have tempted me My whole life. All right? So I know that it's not like all of a sudden I get tempted with something I've never been tempted before. All right?
So I can't make any provision for that.
In fact, I have to make provision against it.
[00:27:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:58] Speaker B: And that's where accountability partners come in. That's where.
That's where
[00:28:05] Speaker A: just defining who you want to be. Sometimes we don't even take the time to define, like, this is the woman I want to be, or this is the man. The sermon from Sunday is called Tired of Sinning on our Christchurch, Ohio, YouTube page. Tired of sinning.
[00:28:21] Speaker B: Good title.
[00:28:22] Speaker A: Amen.
[00:28:25] Speaker B: Okay. Second of all, I want to say there is no temptation taken you that isn't common to man.
And God won't permit us to be tempted beyond what we can bear. But with every temptation will provide a way of escape.
[00:28:43] Speaker A: Amen.
[00:28:46] Speaker B: And the way of escape is generally I have to refocus.
I have. I. I have to turn from sin and I have to turn to Christ.
Yep.
[00:29:02] Speaker A: The changing of the mind.
[00:29:04] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:29:05] Speaker A: And that's. That's like repentance.
[00:29:07] Speaker B: Right.
[00:29:08] Speaker A: We also often think of repentance as this, you know, punishment, or I've done, you know, it's a changing of the way we're thinking about things and changing of the desire for sin in our life.
So go ahead. Sorry.
[00:29:24] Speaker B: Okay. So I want to be real practical.
A show comes on TV that my soul tells me I shouldn't watch, but the law of sin says I want to watch it.
[00:29:37] Speaker A: Yeah, it's good. Interesting, right?
[00:29:42] Speaker B: So in that very second, that's where I have to submit to the law of Christ. I may have to turn the TV off.
I may have to go into another room.
I'm definitely going to have to sit quietly and think about the beauty and the majesty of Christ because it passes.
Temptation is really not.
It's got to win quickly or it loses. Temptation passes.
So in that moment, if I will act and I will turn away from the law of sin and I will turn toward the law of Christ, it could be as simply as sitting down and telling myself, thinking through a story in the Gospels.
Or it could be as simple as setting down and saying to Christ, I'm praying for the Holy Spirit to help me refocus on what is beautiful about who you are.
Help me to think about how beautiful it is to be loved by God.
[00:30:52] Speaker A: I want to interject here just for a second, because I think when you are married to someone. So this is for married people that are struggling and let's say A show came on or whatever.
God has given this a gift of friendship and a life partnership.
And I think too often our sin, we think it is isolated. No one feels the way that I do. And so it's shameful.
Instead of maybe hiding things from your spouse, so a show comes on your. Maybe your spouse. It's not the same sin. So it's not enticing. Doesn't even register a red flag.
I think sometimes just verbalizing it.
We often think that I can't say anything. The what will they think? But instead, like, this is my best friend. This is my partner. We conquer sin together. We are not against each other, but we are for each other. And just saying something as simple as like, this isn't good for my soul.
What would your spouse do in that moment that now you're battling something together?
There's this tic tac trend and it says, we listen and we don't judge. And then you say the most ridiculous things and it's a stupid trend. It's funny, but sometimes in life we need to put down the guard of, I don't know, like a self protectiveness or this. And we just need to put down the guard and just say, we are human beings trying to do this life together. And I want to be authentic and real and where I struggle, I want to have a partner in the struggle with me.
[00:32:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
Evil thrives in darkness.
[00:32:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Isolation.
[00:32:37] Speaker B: And if we can drag it into the light.
When you said, share with your partner. There is nothing more beautiful in the world than hear your spouse say a diligent prayer to God for you.
[00:32:51] Speaker A: Amen.
[00:32:52] Speaker B: It's just beautiful.
[00:32:53] Speaker A: Amen.
[00:32:54] Speaker B: I try to say. I try to hold Shay's hand every day and pray a rich prayer for her. And then sometimes she says, let me pray for you. And she prays and it just lifts my spirit.
[00:33:10] Speaker A: Well, she has a direct line to heaven.
[00:33:12] Speaker B: Yes, she does.
[00:33:13] Speaker A: When mom says she's praying for you, I mean, you know that Jesus is listening. Oh, yeah.
The angels have gathered around.
Okay, I have to close here.
I might keep asking you more questions and we can release an extended version of this tomorrow or. Or whenever. But I. Part of me.
If you could go back in time 45 years ago, before all this, before three campuses, before all the ministry that God's doing, all the life transformation, and sit down with yourself and say one piece of advice on hearing the voice of God, what would you say to that?
Good looking, dark haired.
[00:34:10] Speaker B: At least I had hair.
[00:34:11] Speaker A: Yeah, boy.
[00:34:13] Speaker B: Well, this is what I would say.
I would Say.
God always gives you what you need to take the next step.
Sometimes we walk by faith, not by sight. He's not. He doesn't gonna. He's not gonna give you clarity for five years from now. But you know the next right thing to do.
The Holy Spirit is prompting you about the next right thing to do.
The Holy Spirit is using the scripture to remind you.
I would also say to my younger self, trust the goodness of God, presume that God is good.
Expect God to be good.
Look for the goodness of God.
[00:35:07] Speaker A: Amen.
[00:35:10] Speaker B: I would write the song that Lexi sings.
Your goodness comes running after me.
[00:35:18] Speaker A: All my life you've been faithful.
[00:35:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
You will never do wrong.
Ex trusting in the riches of his goodness.
[00:35:31] Speaker A: I have a couple more questions, because when I was studying this verse.
But the helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things.
How? How does the Holy Spirit teach me What?
How do I ask him to teach me in ways that are tangible, in ways that.
Because I do long for that. I long to know stuff that I don't know. I long to have wisdom that is from above.
So what is that? What is the Greek word in that? Teach.
[00:36:06] Speaker B: It's just the classic word for didasco to teach.
[00:36:10] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:36:11] Speaker B: It's a classic word for instruction.
So the Holy Spirit teaches us in a variety of ways.
I believe every time you read your Bible, you should say, dear Holy Spirit, help me to understand.
Guide me into the truth. When he, the spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into truth. All right?
So I'm asking for that guidance.
I will come across passages, and the Holy Spirit will make me sensitive to them. And then I'll stop right there and say, you've made me sensitive to this passage. Help me to understand it and show me how you want me to use it.
The second way he teaches us is, ah, he brings.
[00:37:13] Speaker A: He.
[00:37:15] Speaker B: We. We hear. We hear a sermon, and the Holy Spirit, it makes it click in us.
Or we hear a teaching and the Holy Spirit makes it click in us.
[00:37:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:28] Speaker B: The third way he teaches us is he puts people in our lives.
[00:37:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:35] Speaker B: Ah.
I was not a theology reader until he put Dr. Douglas in my life, and then I've been a theology reader ever since.
The Holy Spirit put him in my life and he acclimated me to that.
The Holy Spirit teaches us by experience.
[00:38:01] Speaker A: Ah.
[00:38:02] Speaker B: Good experiences and bad experiences.
Isn't it great?
The Holy Spirit says, isn't it awesome to be in the presence of God and pray?
Isn't this. Don't you isn't this meaningful to you? Don't you? Yeah. And then he teaches us on the opposite way and goes, this makes you miserable.
[00:38:26] Speaker A: The conviction.
[00:38:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Why, why don't you start following my advice and walk away from this? Feel how miserable this has made you. That's the teaching voice of the Holy Spirit.
[00:38:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah. So when I think about my life in general, it's sometimes there are rhythms that make it so easy and so accessible and there's structures in my life that.
So this is a dumb example, but I wanted to quit eating too much candy. And I heard someone say, you can't just.
I. We have a bin in our house that's got all the good stuff and I am a junior high boy. I will eat and drink Mountain Dew and every candy you can get your hands on. Like, I am a junior high boy when it comes to food.
And so she said, instead of like taking the bin away or just, she said, put gum in there or mint. So every time you go, you grab a mint. And so it's creating a structure that helps you succeed. I would like to help people create a structure that helps them succeed in hearing the voice of God. What would be your one, your first go to in creating a structure that would help us hear the voice of God more clearly?
[00:39:52] Speaker B: All right, first of all, every day I would read my Bible. Okay. I do read my Bible every day. It's non negotiable.
I brush my teeth every day.
I mean, there's never a day go by that I don't brush my teeth.
[00:40:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:11] Speaker B: I mean, I can't imagine going a whole day and not brushing my teeth. Yeah, okay. I'm the same way about reading my Bible.
I'm going to read my Bible every day and I'm going to be asked. I'm going to ask the Holy Spirit.
Teach me your way. Open my eyes. Enlighten the eyes of my understanding. Ephesians, chapter one.
And so as I read, when the Holy Spirit makes me sensitive to something, I'm going to stop and there and I'm going to ask him, okay, You've made me sensitive to this. Help me to understand it.
The number one way you're going to be guided by God is his. His Word.
[00:41:02] Speaker A: I am curious because we've been around the Christian world our whole life.
What are some mistakes you hear people make or say when they talk about hearing the voice of God?
I mean, I know that we've both had experiences where people have come up to us and said, I have heard from God and he wants you to know this.
And I think sometimes maybe that is true, but I think often that is off base. And so what are some mistakes that you've heard or you've sensed about how people talk about hearing from God?
[00:41:45] Speaker B: The one that is most obvious to me is God said, yeah, yeah. All right. If you're quoting scripture, then you can say to me, God said.
If you're talking about a thought you had, you're out of bounds to say God said, yeah.
And I know people, they live and die by it. But it's pretty clear at the end of revelation, if you add anything to this or you take anything away from this, it's not going to go well with you.
So when you say God said, you're making yourself equivalent to the authors of the scripture.
And
[00:42:43] Speaker A: dangerous ground.
[00:42:44] Speaker B: Dangerous, yeah. All right.
Now you can say, I think God is guiding my thoughts.
[00:42:54] Speaker A: I sense.
[00:42:55] Speaker B: I sense. Yeah, I sense God is guiding my thoughts.
I'm feeling tugged by God in this.
Or I would like to explore this with God.
We're in good grounds.
[00:43:17] Speaker A: Ah.
[00:43:21] Speaker B: The second thing about saying God said, well, then it's not testable.
[00:43:26] Speaker A: Oh, I'm so glad you brought this up. Okay. So we see in scripture all the time, test this, test this.
And this is something we don't often do.
We do not test, is this from God or is this not? We just assume or we listen to someone who says they heard something. And then you either have stress because they told you something terrible or they said something great, whatever it might be. But I love this idea of when you hear.
When you think you have heard the voice of God outside a scripture or a thought, how do you test it?
So can you talk about testing?
[00:44:08] Speaker B: So I'll tell you a real life story.
I was in 1982, February 23rd, I was having a week of prayer and fasting because.
[00:44:23] Speaker A: What year was that? 82.
[00:44:24] Speaker B: 82.
Because my sense was I had this call of God on my life, but I didn't have the opportunity.
So I was having a week of saturation Bible reading, fasting, and prayer. And I thought some thoughts, and I sat down with Sharon and I said, I think God is guiding me.
I sense that I'm getting an insight into the kind of church that God is going to use me to build.
And I said, I'm not going to say a thing to you about it. You pray for a week, and at the end of the week, we'll talk again.
About three days later, we were having coffee before I went to work, and Sharon said, I think I Know what it is?
And she said to me almost the very same thing that I sensed in my spirit.
[00:45:36] Speaker A: And again, I grew up knowing this story, and so it just seemed normal to me, like, this is how God.
This is how it works. But that is a mountaintop moment.
[00:45:46] Speaker B: Yes, it is.
[00:45:47] Speaker A: And you celebrate that mountaintop moment every year, don't you?
[00:45:50] Speaker B: Every February 23rd.
[00:45:52] Speaker A: What do you guys do to celebrate?
[00:45:54] Speaker B: We usually go out for lunch or supper and we rehearse the goodness of God.
We don't tell each other war stories. We tell each other, remember when this happened. Remember then that happened?
[00:46:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
So I think one of the big things in testing, then, is point of your story is you talk to someone who's spiritually mature, someone who knows God, someone who reads scripture, and you talk through what you think you're hearing.
Give me one other way to test.
[00:46:26] Speaker B: Is this consistent with what I know the Bible says?
[00:46:33] Speaker A: Right. God will not give you some new.
[00:46:38] Speaker B: Right.
[00:46:39] Speaker A: What we need is in here.
[00:46:41] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:46:41] Speaker A: And if it contradicts this, not from God.
[00:46:44] Speaker B: Right? Yeah.
And similar to that, I was pointing
[00:46:49] Speaker A: to the Bible for those of you who are listening.
[00:46:51] Speaker B: Is this consistent with how God has worked in my life?
[00:46:55] Speaker A: Yeah, this was a good one. Growing up. You would always tell me this, God
[00:46:58] Speaker B: is not going to call me tomorrow at 72 years old to be a missionary. It's not consistent with how he's worked in my life.
So God has a pattern of working in my life, and he's going to.
He doesn't bait and switch. You create this pattern, jerk the rug out from underneath you and say, you should listen better.
[00:47:25] Speaker A: Ha, ha ha. Sucker. Yeah.
[00:47:27] Speaker B: I want to add this. Okay. I'm not listening for the voice of God. I'm looking for the ideas of God because rarely is he gonna talk to me in a voice.
It's ideas, thoughts, thoughts.
[00:47:41] Speaker A: Yeah. That's why it's so hard to differentiate. Is this God? Is this me? And that's where testing comes in.
[00:47:46] Speaker B: And self awareness.
[00:47:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
I had a friend who would pray about what meal to eat, chicken or Steak and every decision, it was like, if he didn't hear from God, it was suffocating and he just couldn't move forward. And he was stuck. And it was just like, so felt very over the top of, like, dude, you can eat the chicken or the steak. God doesn't care. You'll be fine either way. And so when we think about hearing the voice of God in every tiny detail of our life, what's your take on that?
[00:48:21] Speaker B: Okay, the. Okay, I want to be spiritually mature. Yeah.
Our little.
Our little lovely child.
Ah, she's got to have direction and everything.
[00:48:36] Speaker A: Yeah. That's our Selah.
[00:48:37] Speaker B: She's got to be directed.
It's time to go to bed. It's time to get up.
We're going to eat dinner. Okay. But she's going to outgrow that.
And more and more and more, she's going to be self directed. Well, I want to grow up spiritually also.
I want to know God well enough that I don't have to be held by the hand and have divine intervention for every single.
We can grow up spiritually. And we say, I know God is like this, so it makes sense to move in this direction.
[00:49:24] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. Or this is the relationship I'm looking for. And so is. Are they fitting the values that I want or. This is my heart's desire for a career. And how I show up in that career is more important than the career I actually take because it's the character of who he's growing us in to rather than just the right career.
And I think that is one of the most helpful things for anybody is you connected to Christ in the decisions you make is living in the will of God.
[00:50:04] Speaker B: This is hugely important.
Hugely important.
When I'm living under the law of Christ, it makes perfect sense to me that God is going to find a way to guide me.
[00:50:23] Speaker A: And the law of Christ is the gift of him dying on the cross for us, the forgiveness of our sins, him working within us my daily,
[00:50:37] Speaker B: including him in my thoughts and actions.
[00:50:41] Speaker A: Okay, so say it one more time. Now that people know.
[00:50:44] Speaker B: Law of Christ. The law of Christ is who Christ is and what he desires become the rule of my heart. More than that I'm gonna talk about this Sunday.
It becomes I actually enjoy the things of God more than I enjoy the pleasures of sin. For a season, I actually come to like his stuff more than that stuff.
[00:51:16] Speaker A: Amen.
All right, well, thank you. Thank you. I hope you enjoy this extended version of How Do We Discern the Voice of God? We pray that you have an awesome day. God bless you.
