Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey.
[00:00:00] Speaker B: Welcome, everybody.
How are you?
That sounds about right for this morning. Well, I hope online you have a little bit more energy than we do in this place. Hey, it is my mom and dad's 51st wedding anniversary this week. Yeah.
So they are celebrating.
I saw this picture and I said, you get yourself a man that looks at you the way doc looks at Sharon. Am I right?
51 years. And they have led the way in such a wonderful way. And I feel honored to be here with you guys today.
But let's pray.
Dear heavenly Father, I echo that song that you are all I want.
I echo that song that I pray that your presence will be here, father, and that you will fill this place. You will fill each and every heart of the person. People listening, father, I pray that you will open up our hearts to seeing you in a new way, to redefine maybe what has held us back.
I ask you, Father, please do what only you can do in your son's name. We pray. Amen. Okay, so I am one of five. I've got three older sisters. I like to rub that in and say that out loud publicly as much as I can, because often everyone thinks I'm the older sister, but I'm the baby sister, so let's rub it in a little bit. And then I've got a younger brother, Jeremiah. And our family has this ongoing joke that there is a 6th sibling and the 6th sibling is the church. We cannot help ourselves. From the time I was little, we would go to church Sunday morning, you'd come home, kind of chill, go to church Sunday night, you'd go to church. During the middle of the week, you'd go to church. When mom and dad had meetings, we'd have dinner at the church. Our friends were from the church. I had more church than Jesus had church, okay?
And it's not just a job to our family. It's not just a place where we worship. It's a D and a. It's who we are. Oftentimes when we get together. I can't even say often. Every time we get together, we're problem solving. We're talking about the church. We're trying to figure out the next. We're praying for people. And it's. Sometimes we're like, okay, guys, we are not working today. And then, like 13 seconds later, the church is back. And it's because it's who we are. It's not what we do, but it's who we are. And one of the very best things that my mom and dad did for us with this sick sibling was. They told us that Christianity is a thinking religion that we don't just blindly follow, but it's a thinking religion. And my dad would not just ask us questions, but he would make sure that we knew that he was our safe place to land. And when we struggled with some of the hardest things in the church, when we struggled with the hardest life decisions or the biggest mistakes that we would make, our dad would teach us. Let's put it on the table and let's talk about it.
But when I got into probably junior high, I learned that every question isn't good questions.
In math class, when I raised my hand more than everybody else, I learned that you kind of got the feeling that you were stupid, you'd get made fun of a little bit. So by high school, I learned to stop asking questions.
I learned that your questions get you made fun of. And I look around in this church community, and I wonder to myself, how many of us feel that same way?
How many of us feel like, if you have a doubt or you're confused, that you look around and everybody else seems to have it together, because at the church, it's good and we are highly favored, and God bless you, you know what I'm saying? And you look around and everyone's got it together. And so it's like, can I ask this question? Is it safe?
Is it fair? If I have doubt? Does it mean I'm going to hell? And I want to today normalize questions? I want to normalize doubt, because here's what I believe. I believe that doubt is not always a lack of faith. It's just a lack of knowing. I want to encourage that when we don't know and we put it on the table that we don't stay stuck, that we don't stay stuck in this world of. I don't really know. I don't really want to ask. It's all weird. It's all uncomfortable.
I want to get rid of that, and today I want to put it on the table. What happens when you have doubt? What happens when you struggle with real questions?
What happens when you're trying to figure out life and you're trying to figure out, how do I follow God? How does this all work together? When there's real pain, there's real struggle, there's real life at home. Amen.
How does God relate to our doubt?
How does Christ show up when we don't know, when we don't know how to figure it out?
And there's the twelve disciples, and one of them his name is Thomas. But Thomas kind of gets a bad nickname. Who in this church knows Thomas's nickname?
Doubting Thomas.
But here's the reality. Doubting Thomas was not his nickname in the Bible. The reality was his nickname was the twin. He was a twin, and that's what they called him, the twin. So who gave him the nickname doubting Thomas?
Us beautiful Christians who read the Bible saw a story where he doubted, and we slapped that label on him. We called it a day, and we've passed it along for centuries, because doubting, you can't doubt. You're going to get a label.
And Thomas, he's. I don't know. You don't get a ton of Thomas. You get him about eight times in scripture, and four of them are, like, just lists of he was a disciple. So his name shows up four times because it's in the list of the disciples. The other four you find in the book John. And John, gives us a little more insight into Thomas's life.
And I think it's interesting because when you look at the other stories of Thomas and you kind of put it all together, you get maybe a different view, like, oh, maybe Thomas is a little bit more than just his doubt.
There's this time when it was the Passover. This is right before Jesus was going to die. And they're in a room and they're celebrating dinner together. And I just. I don't know, I imagine the aroma of dinner. Some sort of good, juicy meat, maybe some potatoes. I have no idea what they ate or what they did. I should probably look that up a little bit more. But in my mind, it smells like roast beef.
And they're in this time where it's kind of their last minutes with Jesus, their last time with Jesus. And Jesus is trying to get them prepared for what's coming, we get the other side of the story. So when we read the Bible, there's very little tension for us and what that time must have looked like between when he died and when he rose again. There's little tension for us because we're like, we know the end of the story.
[00:07:52] Speaker A: Suckers.
[00:07:53] Speaker B: It's going to be good.
But for them, they didn't.
They were living in the middle of something. And before Jesus leaves, he says this. It comes in John 14.
Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God. Believe also in me. In my father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, I would have told you that I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you I will come again and will take you to myself. That where I am, you may be also. And you know the way to where I'm going. Never related more to Thomas than in this moment because I'm guessing he's looking around at the disciples and be like, does anyone know where he is going? You guys good? You guys. Jesus, wait a second. We don't know where you're going, so how could we know? The way I relate to that. I feel like he's not being stubborn or I feel like he really truly wants to understand. Like he really truly wants to know, where are you going? I want to be a part. I want to go.
And then I'm so glad he asked the question because look at what Jesus says.
Jesus said in verse six. I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me. If you had known me, you would have known my father also. From now on, you do know him and you have seen him.
It's just a couple of days later and Jesus is dead.
And I just have to sit in the tension.
These twelve guys have given up everything. Let's just call them eleven, okay? These eleven guys have given up everything to follow Jesus.
They've given up family. They've given up careers. They've given up everything. And they followed him with all their heart. And every encounter they got to see something beautiful. They got to see the miracles of Jesus. They got to see the blind see and the lame walk. They got to see 5000 fed. They got to see so many beautiful things. But do you know what they never saw? They never saw who they thought was their creator, the son of God, die.
And now he's dead. They saw his lifeless body.
And Mary Magdalene comes to this morning and when we find them in John 20 there is real tension in the room. You see the disciples are all together but the door is locked.
The door is locked because they are terrified.
They're terrified that what the Jews did to Jesus will happen to them.
And because they're afraid, they're hiding behind locked doors.
Sometimes I wonder what am I holding in my heart? What doubt, what fear have I locked deep inside?
Sometimes I think that maybe I'm probably a little better than I actually am.
And I was like searching my heart for this sermon because I never want to stand up here and preach something that I don't really have. That I haven't lived, that God hasn't touched me in some way. So I feel like I can speak a little bit of what I've experienced and I was thinking about, what have we locked behind closed doors in our heart or in our mind?
Where has pain may become? And maybe you are like Thomas, and maybe you have lost someone that you love. And the doubt creeps in of how could God take them from you?
Maybe it's something totally different. My husband and I were talking last night. He's like, Sarah, what about the mundane?
Where it's not like outright doubt, but you get so caught up in everyday life that you don't even need God.
And the doubt is not that he's good or that he's real. It's just you're good without him. You don't need him because you've got your rhythm, you've got your control. You've got your success.
For some of us, it's this idea of I have locked up, maybe who God has created me to be because the self doubt is so real. The doubt of I can't do the hard things that he's asked me to do.
And so I hide behind a locked door, never really stepping out into our full potential, because God, I don't know if I can trust you in it. I think you're good. But could you love a girl like me? Could you use a girl like me?
You see, we are locked sometimes behind real doubt, real fear. And we have to get honest with ourself and we have to put it on the table.
And the disciples are locked behind this room. And what I find interesting is earlier in verse 20, Mary Magdalene has gone to the tomb. It's empty. She already told the disciples that she saw Jesus. And where are they? They're behind the locked door.
And Jesus enters the room.
And he says, peace be with you.
And he goes and he shows the disciples his hands.
He shows them where the nail marks were. He shows them the side where he was pierced.
And the Bible tells us that the disciples were so overjoyed that they were so glad that they couldn't believe what was going on. But someone was missing.
There were only ten disciples there that day.
Thomas wasn't there.
And later on, the disciples go and tell Thomas, hey, we have seen the Lord. He is alive. We've seen him. And now this is where Thomas gets his bad rap. This is where the label has been put on. And this is why we call him doubting Thomas.
Because Thomas goes on and the disciples tell him about it. We've seen the Lord. But Thomas says in verse 25, John 2025, unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and I place my hand into his side. I will never believe we judge that so hard.
But all the disciples, they got to see it. Do you know what I'm saying? They got to see it.
And sometimes we look around at other people's lives, and we're like, oh, it'd be easy to believe if we were you. Be easy to believe if this wasn't my life, or this isn't how I felt, or this isn't what I had to encounter, the disciples got to see it, but Thomas didn't.
And in this place, in this space of deep trauma, his best friend has just died. His hope of what he thought was going to happen has died.
And in this space, he's struggling deeply.
And instead of allowing him to struggle deeply, we say how bad it is. And I want to stop the nonsense.
Some of us struggle deeply.
I want to just do a quick side note. I feel like I heard this passage from this beautiful soul. Her name's Taylor Madu.
And she was giving a sermon, and she had told a story about she had a little boy named Micah.
And Micah, when he was born, he died in delivery. And Taylor was a young single mom at this time. She loved God. I think her daddy was a pastor. And she just struggled with identity. She struggled with pain. She struggled.
And it was about two years after she lost her little boy that she had named Micah, and it would have been his birthday. And she said, I was just praying, and I was just seeking God.
And I was just saying, could you please just show me that he's okay?
And her mama heart was struggling. And she woke up that morning, and she went on to MySpace, and she had a message from one of her girlfriends, and it was titled Micah.
And her girlfriend that night had had a dream about Micah. And they were in heaven, and her and Micah were running around, and they were chasing butterflies, and the light was spectacular. She said, the beauty of the colors was more than you could ever explain.
And Taylor's friend just said, I kept wishing to myself, I wish Taylor was here. I wish she could see this. I wish she could see Micah.
And in the dream, Micah takes Taylor's friend to this greenhouse. And in the greenhouse, it's pictures of Taylor.
And Micah looks up and says to her friend, that's my mommy. I hang up these pictures so that I can remember that she's going to be here with me one day.
And Taylor said that so often when we think about death, we think about something that we can't comprehend, that when we think about the people that we've lost, we don't realize that there is an eternity happening right here, right now, that the people we love, my grandma and grandpa Brown, my cousin TJ rich, the people we love, they are living right now in eternity.
And often our hearts get settled on God. Why would you take them from me?
And I think we need to have a turn where we say, father, in your genius, you gave them to me.
In your genius, I got to be their granddaughter, I got to be their son, I got to be their daughter. I got to be their husband. I got to be their wife, their dad, their mom, whatever it might be, in your genius, I got to know them. I got to love them.
And instead of what you took, we say what you gave.
There is a beauty in this world that it's hard for us to see because we're so finite. But God is eternal and he is so good. And I want to just ask the question. What would it take for you truly to believe?
What would it take for you to believe that God loves you?
What would it take for you to believe that your kids are safer with God than they'll ever be with you?
What will it take for you to believe that your relationship, if you can do it right and just invite God into it over and over and over, he will help see it through.
What will it take for you to believe that he chose you with a plan and with a purpose?
What will it take for you to believe that the mundane is just that? And that there is a life that you are called to live. There is a life that you are designed for Thomas, he needed to see it.
He needed to touch it.
Eight days later, they're in a room, and in the room there is all of the guys.
But guess what? The doors are yet again locked.
I love the Bible because we can miss details like this, but this is reality.
This is reality. We meet God, we see him, we believe. But there are still things that we have to work through. There are still things that we have to dig through. There are still things that when we are real. And this is why I love it. If you wanted to prove the Bible was true, you wouldn't put this kind of stuff in it. You know what I'm saying? You wouldn't be like, we locked the doors because we were afraid. No, you'd be the hero. You'd be like, God was good. We believed, and we went out and told everybody. You know what I'm saying? This is real because they're putting things, they're putting these details that are so like us.
The doors are locked, but Thomas is there.
Can I just say to whoever in this room has some doubt, how you just keep showing up matters?
Can I say to whoever is watching online, do not stay where you're at.
If you're struggling with belief, just keep taking steps. Get around people that might be able to help you. If you're struggling with identity or self doubt or some of the things that can really cripple us on the inside, then get into good books, good life groups, good ministry teams. Get around people who can love you, encourage you, and not judge you. Church. We cannot be a church of judgment and condemnation. We have to be a church that speaks grace, love and truth. Amen. I want people to feel safe. I want people to be able to experience. I'm going to walk with God. And I'm not just justified because he died for me, but part of the christian faith, part of the christian walk. It's called sanctification. It means that as we go, as we serve, as we love, as we show up, as we seek life, we become better. We become more like Christ. We become more of who he wants us to be.
Christ shows up eight days later.
[00:22:17] Speaker A: And.
[00:22:17] Speaker B: He says, peace be with you.
This is what I love about God. He knows our heart. We don't even have to say it, and he knows it.
He knows the cry of our heart. He knows that they're longing for peace, that they're longing to not feel this way, that they're longing for him.
And this time when he shows up, he looks directly at Thomas, the one in the room with the most doubts. And he looks at Thomas and he says, touch it, thomas, look. Touch it. Put your finger through the nail hole. Put your hand in my side.
I was reading this account from Spurgeon, and Spurgeon said that he believes that when you see the risen savior, when you saw someone who is dead now alive in your presence, that gusto, that Thomas would have had to say, I have to touch it. I have to put my hand in it, would have left the room.
His disposition would have changed.
And when he saw the risen savior, I'm putting this in scripture, but I feel like, I wonder if this is what happened, because Thomas looks and he says, my lord, my God.
And I think about those days before Jesus died.
I think about those days when Jesus said to him, hey, if you would have known me, you would have known the father.
I think when he said, from now on, you do know him. You have seen him.
When Thomas looks at the risen Jesus, he says, my lord and my God. And you know what a lot of scholars believe? They believe that this is one of the greatest professions of faith, because in the jewish culture, you would never give a human or a person any kind of quality of God. God was God.
And in this profession of faith, Thomas is saying, you are not just man, but you are fully God.
My lord and my God.
Do you know what? I believe that when we put our doubt in the right hands, our heavenly Father initiates something beautiful with us. Who showed up that day? Was it the disciples? No, they were locked behind the doors. But Christ showed up, and he initiated straight to the heart of Thomas's need.
Straight to the heart of Thomas's doubt. And he initiated something so beautiful.
And all that was left for Thomas to say was just to declare who God is. My lord and my God.
A couple weeks ago, I was upstairs and I heard the kids sing this song.
And in this song, I literally stopped in my tracks.
Because lately I've just been so desiring just to be in the presence of God.
Like, I do not want a stage, I do not want a platform. I want to just be in the presence of God.
Can we send the kiddos up?
And when I seek and I yearn to be in his presence, I heard the kids doing this song, and I literally, I was, like, so overwhelmed.
I was so in awe.
And I want us to spend a few minutes with an open heart, with God, with an open heart that says, wherever your doubt is. Like, just put it on the table. Whatever door you have locked, just put it on the table and open up your heart. And let's just spend a few minutes in the presence of.
[00:26:22] Speaker A: That's you.
Caught up in your presence.
I just wanna sit here at your feet I'm caught up in this holy moment I never want to leave oh, I'm not here for blessing Jesus, you don't owe me anything more than anything that you can do.
I just want you.
I'm sorry when I've just gone through the motions I'm sorry when I just sing another song take me back to where we started I open up my heart to you I'm sorry when I've come with my agenda I'm sorry when I forgot that you're enough take me back to where we started I open up my heart to you caught up in your presence I just wanna sit here at your feet I'm caught up in this holy moment I never want to leave oh, I'm not here for blessing Jesus, you don't owe me anything more than anything that you can do I just want you I just want you nothing else, nothing else nothing else will do I'm caught up in your presence I just wanna sit here at your feet I'm caught up in this holy moment I never wanna leave oh, I'm not here for blessing Jesus, you don't know me anything more than anything that you can do I just want you.
[00:32:58] Speaker B: That's like one of my big things when I preach is you're going to see me.
I'm going to be transparent.
And I'm going to tell you that our leadership team, we are committed to getting it right in this place.
We are committed to grappling with scripture. And this week we're going to be doing just that. There is scripture that I don't fully know how to understand, but there's a generation who is counting on us to figure it out, and we will not quit until we figure it out. We are going to seek God in the kind of way that we just seek him with all our heart, with all humility.
There's doubt still.
And a couple of years ago, maybe two, maybe a year and a half, I just realized I'm in this weird phase of life where I'm not going to have my mom and dad around forever.
And they have been like my biggest encouragers. They have been my safest place to land.
They always have the right answer when I call.
And I was just struggling with this realization of, can I be all that God called me to be without my mom, without my dad.
And I had doubt, had doubt.
But instead of holding it in and struggling with it, I went to my dad and I just laid it out, said, I'm not sure if I can live up to what I think God's calling me to do because it feels big. I have doubt, and his answer is going to stick with me for the rest of my life.
He said, you have a heavenly father, Sarah.
That will be a way better dad to you, will be a way better dad to you than I ever could be.
And when I'm not here, I want you to know how much he loves you.
I want you to know that he believes in you.
And I want you to know that he'll carry you through.
And I just want to reach out to you guys today and say, there is a heavenly father who is so much better than you think.
There is a heavenly father who will be so much better than any love we could ever receive here on earth.
There is a heavenly father that even though we doubt, he shows up with grace he shows up with dignity.
He shows up with love.
We have a heavenly father that we can count on.
At the end of John 20, there's a verse that says. John's kind of saying, like, why he wrote this book? And he said, but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
There is life in the name of Jesus.
There is life and power and strength when we trust him, when we don't give up, when we don't stay stuck, but we keep taking steps forward in our doubt, forward in our fear, forward in our frustration.
There is a God that wants to give you life. And I just want all heads to bow right now.
And I just want to pray that if your heart is doubting and you just need something extra, just lift your hand up and down and we are going to pray for you. Special if you just need God in the kind of way that fuels your heart and soul. God bless you. God bless you. God bless you. God bless you. God bless you. God bless you. God bless you.
God bless you.
Dear heavenly Father, we need you.
You are my lord. You are my God. And I cry out to you, Father, please, where our souls need you. Please fill us where our doubts keep us stuck. Please keep moving us forward and initiate right here and right now in our hearts and souls and minds that you are good, that you have a plan and a purpose, that you are our safest spot to land.
Help us to live, Father, in who you are and trust in a whole new way.
Let us walk into the doubt and not let it keep us stuck. Let us trust that you are a God that is good, that you are for us, Father. And let us all declare that there is life in your name. In your son's name we pray. Amen.
