Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Church. How is everybody tonight?
I am super pumped because we're going to be switching it up a little bit tonight. We are going to be doing a relationship conversation with the best looking man in the entire world. Jacob Berger, everybody.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: Oh, my bad, sorry.
[00:00:22] Speaker A: And Chet Meler, who's been one of our best friends in ministry and in life for, I don't know, well over 20 years. So he knows us. He's been through kind of the thick and the beauty with us. And I'm just excited to see what God's gonna do tonight.
[00:00:41] Speaker B: Awesome. Well, hey guys, it's an honor to be with you and an honor to interview you guys. Can we give it up for Jake and Sarah?
It's a hard thing to share your heart in your life and you guys are always so gener just because you want to help and bless people. So thank you for doing that. And I call them Mr. And Mrs. Burger.
So.
[00:01:08] Speaker A: But if that's his parents.
[00:01:14] Speaker B: But if we could just get started. Why don't you guys just tell us a little bit about your story?
[00:01:20] Speaker C: Yeah. So Sarah and I met in junior high.
It was love at first sight, obviously.
[00:01:28] Speaker A: But the funny thing is it was not.
We both liked other people and to make them jealous, we started going out.
[00:01:39] Speaker C: As I said, love at first sight.
But honestly, we enjoyed one another's company.
And so we started hanging out junior high kids and got a little bit serious as we moved into high school. And I started coming to church a little bit around that time. So we kind of had invited God into our relationship a little bit. And then our paths changed a bit when we had our first, our beautiful little Lexi, our first child in high school. Obviously not part of God's plan, but he still had a plan through it at all. And so we both graduated and we went off to college and soon thereafter. We got married when we were 20 and then continued our family. And by the age of 23 we had three kids and a mortgage.
And all was not well in the Berger household. As you might expect, we had experienced a lot in life. We still, we brought both of our broken self selves, I should say both of our human selves into the marriage.
And so in our throughout our early and mid 20s, it was really time to figure this thing out. And that's some of what we want to share with you this evening.
[00:02:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I think when I just reflect on our story, I think often in life it's easy to think you are the main character of your story. Right.
But when I reflect on mine and Jacob's story The glory belongs to God because any way you could try to mess it up, we did.
And I, like, I just sit here humbly with a heart of such deep gratitude for God because there were so many times when it felt impossible.
And every single time God met us.
And so when you are sitting here single, married, divorced, like, wherever you're at, I think if you can switch the focus off of you being the main character of your life and put the focus on, okay, the main character is Jesus Christ. The main character is, how do I honor God in this one life that I've been given?
I promise you, something changes in your life.
And if you hear nothing else for the rest of the night, I want you to sit and just simmer in that. That. That heartbeat of God is the main character. And how can your life reflect him to the world?
[00:04:27] Speaker B: Amen. Well, I think for those who know you guys well, your story is inspiring, I think, to all of us, you know, and I think through the ups and downs, you guys have always done a great job of just like fully committing yourselves to God, into his church, into his people, and it's awesome to see. So thank you for the example too that you guys are. I know it's not easy. I know you're not perfect or anything like that, but you guys are an inspiration and we appreciate it.
[00:04:57] Speaker A: Thanks, Chad.
[00:04:58] Speaker B: That means a lot. Amen. Church. You agree?
I gave very uncomfortable.
[00:05:05] Speaker A: When we say nice things, like, I start to.
[00:05:08] Speaker B: I'll only say mean things from here out, but can we talk about dating for a second? Anyone interested in that topic?
[00:05:15] Speaker C: Any dates out there?
[00:05:16] Speaker B: No? Okay, moving on.
This is how my sermons go on Sunday.
No, but let's. Let's talk about dating whether you want to or not.
[00:05:27] Speaker C: There's some daters online.
[00:05:29] Speaker B: Okay, perfect.
When you think about dating, what's some good advice for people to kind of take home with them tonight? What's some good thoughts for those that are in that season or looking to be in that season?
[00:05:41] Speaker C: Sure. I think when I think about dating, obviously it's important to have some shared interests. Right. It's important to have some shared moral background and to sort of be cut from the same cloth, so to speak, because that's a level of attraction outside of the physical.
But for me, it's also important that when you're thinking about dating someone, that there's a complimentary side to, in their personality, to your personality. And so obviously I was physically attracted to Sarah at the beginning, but I was also attracted to some things. And still.
[00:06:22] Speaker B: And still. Yeah.
But he was getting there.
[00:06:27] Speaker C: I was building up to that.
But there were parts of her character that I didn't see in myself, but wanted to see. There was a richness of love and compassion and emotion that I hadn't experienced a ton in my life. And so when I say a complimentary side to her personality, that's sort of what I mean by that. There was, there was something that I wanted to see more of in myself and I saw it in her and I had a natural attraction to it.
[00:07:02] Speaker A: I think I'm just like a very realistic level when it comes to dating. I think so often attraction is like the pull.
And so it's like the physical side. You know, you see a gorgeous or a good looking guy, and so it's that physical that draws you. But what happens over time is the physical is not what keeps you together.
And I heard someone say it like this. Like, if you have to choose chemistry over character, choose the character.
Because when you're in your 40s, like sex is no longer gonna be that driving force anymore. Like it is in your 20s or, you know, when you first get married, it's different.
And at the end of the day, the man or the woman that you're married to is going to make the difference in your life.
I also feel like there is a reality in dating that we think marriage is going to fix it. Do you know what I'm saying?
So let's just be like super transparent. Can we do that together? A little uncomfortable for a second. I think like pornography is one of the most accessible things anyone can kind of get their hands on these days. And I think when speaking for the men here, so maybe you would be better at doing this. But I think at the heartbeat is, I think sometimes you say, like, once I get married, I will no longer need pornography because I'm going to have a woman. I mean, hallelujah.
But then mama puts on the not tonight jammies, you know what I'm saying?
And your thought life is a little different. Like, you realize marriage is not going to fix those desires and those needs.
[00:09:08] Speaker C: Yeah. Any deficiencies you bring into the marriage are going to follow you throughout the marriage. And so what I would say to specifically young men that are dating, if there's something within your moral character now that you don't like or you know, your future wife is not gonna like, marriage is not gonna solve that issue.
[00:09:30] Speaker A: No, it highlights it. Yeah. It like puts a beam on it. Yeah.
[00:09:34] Speaker C: So I think one of the beautiful things we'll talk a little bit more about Singleness. But I think one of the beautiful things about singleness is it gives you the opportunity to work on the things within your personality and character that are going to maximize that relationship with your spouse moving forward.
[00:09:50] Speaker A: And just one more thought. I think the. I think sometimes for the women when you're dating you, you find a guy that you really like, but your goal is like, I can change him or I can fix him, or I can save him. Any amens? They're like, no, we're sitting next to our partner right now, and I am going to save him. I heard someone say, if you want to save someone or change someone, sign up for the children's ministry. Okay. Because at the end of the day.
[00:10:18] Speaker C: Not the marriage ministry.
[00:10:20] Speaker A: At the end of the day. I think one of my things that I wish I could go back and I've learned is I was trying to control Jacob. I was trying to change him into who I thought God wanted him to be. And I think there is a beautiful aspect of relationships that God does do some good work where through marriage, we do become more and more of who he wants us to be, but it's not through the act of, like, controlling. And so, again, I think it goes back to maybe that character side of you really don't think they're going to change because you get married.
[00:11:02] Speaker B: Yeah. And what would you say to, like, that guy or girl who they're dating someone, and, like, all the people close to them are like, you know, I really don't like this guy. I really don't like this girl. They don't seem good for you. They don't seem to treat you well. But they're like, yes, but I love them. And there's all this great stuff that you don't know about them, and they're kind of living in this world where they're getting that type of feedback. What would you. Any advice?
[00:11:29] Speaker C: I can take a little bit of that. I think the people you love and enjoy the most in your life, you love and enjoy them the most for a reason. And if.
If those people have some significant red flags about the individual that you're dating, I think you ought to really take that to heart.
[00:11:50] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:11:50] Speaker C: One of the beautiful things about Sarah and I is I think my family likes her more than they like me. And I think the same goes for my friends.
[00:12:00] Speaker B: But did you send that in?
[00:12:02] Speaker C: Yeah, that guy just came in. Yeah. A few of you are out in the audience tonight, so.
But that means something.
[00:12:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:15] Speaker C: Those people are important to me for a reason. My family is My family for a reason. My friends are my friends for a reason. And so pay attention to that. It's not everything, but it means something.
[00:12:27] Speaker A: Somebody I think wrote a question in of like, is it good to have non negotiables?
And when I think about the non negotiables, I think too often we put like, I was asking Taylor, what's the saying? It's I need a guy in finance. Six, five blue eyes. Like, you see that trend on social media and so like, you make this list of like, appearance and job. And. But at the end of the day, I think the search for your partner begins with the character of soul. And so I think if your family and the people that you trust and love the most have issues, it is a giant red flag. And I do think there is a serious.
Because we've had this. I've had this with friends, I've had this with family. And so I know the feeling of they want what's best for you. Like, the people in your family, in your circle that you trust, they are the only ones in your life that really want what's best for you. And so if there are those flags, it is time to have an honest conversation with God, you know, to seek him. And what are the non negotiables? Like, the non negotiables of character, of like, let's just start. Do they love God?
Because one thing I think that happens in relationships early on is it doesn't matter much.
And then you fall in love and it goes on and on. And now there's a reality of you are with someone who maybe who doesn't love God or isn't as open to learning and growing. And now you really have to decide what kind of life you want to live. And I think the hardest thing is Jacob and I, like, our children were in the hospital and it was God that got us through. It was us kneeling down and praying together that helped us get through the hardest moments of our life. It was when we were in terrible places, him grabbing my hand and whispering a prayer in my ear that softened the guards that I had put up. And so I think when you take God serious and he is the center of your life, your life then revolves around God. And it's not just like, oh, does he go to church or does she pray? It is, Is God the center?
[00:15:01] Speaker C: Yeah. And I think not to hit too much on dating, because I know there's no daters in this room, but yeah, think through. Also, if, if you're going to build your life around God, you're going to build your finances around God, you're going to build your home around God, you're going to raise your kids around God. And doing that with the other most important person in your life not doing it the same way is going to be a difficult path.
[00:15:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:26] Speaker C: And so I think thinking through some of those things early on to say, is there an opportunity for us to center our finances around God, center our home around God, center our raising our children around God, or is. Or is it going to be a split household?
[00:15:39] Speaker A: And then I just want to hit one more thing.
[00:15:40] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:15:41] Speaker A: I think the other thing, too is sometimes Christians can be so strict on this that you don't allow anyone into your life that is like trying to learn, trying to grow. You hear the passage on being equally yoked. If you've heard it, the idea is it's an ox and a donkey in this system that they would plow the fields. And if you have an ox and a donkey, it's never going to plow straight. And so really at the heartbeat of the idea of being equally yolked is you have two people who love God. And so I think there is. Jacob and I had different relationships with God when we started dating.
[00:16:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:22] Speaker C: This was not an equal yoke early on.
[00:16:24] Speaker A: Yeah. But I think. I think what the idea. I think. Yeah, you were the donkey.
Just kidding. I'm just kidding. Yes, I was.
But I think time's still up.
[00:16:38] Speaker B: You both are pretty yoked now, though.
[00:16:40] Speaker A: Yeah, we are.
The sauna and cold plunge jet.
[00:16:45] Speaker C: Yeah, we're empty nesting.
[00:16:49] Speaker A: Add. Lost my train of thought. But I think the idea is if you are dating someone and they are open to God and they're coming to church with you and they want to grow and they want to know more, then your heartbeat is like, is there movement? Is there growth?
Are they looking for a relationship with God or are they not? Does that make sense?
[00:17:10] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. It reminds me, I had a good buddy that had a lot of dating relationships that didn't work out. He was getting, you know, where he felt like, man, I'm really getting older. But he, you know, would tell me, he's like, man, I desire to be married and I desire to have a family. But he was getting worried because he felt like the clock was just ticking and, you know, no relationship was working out. And I think that they're always. We have to operate with that trust that our God is a good father and that if. If that really is the desire of your heart, like, that's a good desire. It's a good desire to get married, to want to get married and, you know, find someone.
But you do have to, like, trust the Lord through the journey. It doesn't always look the way you want it to. It doesn't always. There's ups and downs to it. But, you know, having that confidence, I think helps you avoid a lot of bad situation.
[00:18:07] Speaker A: Yeah, a million percent.
[00:18:08] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: So how do people want to know? How do you find the one and know if they are the one? This question actually came from my wife.
I don't know. I don't know what to tell you about them, but.
[00:18:24] Speaker C: I. I'll. I'll start that one. I would say first off, if you're. If you're out there looking for the one, stop fooling yourself. I don't think there particular necessarily is a one.
[00:18:37] Speaker A: I think, except for Jacob.
[00:18:39] Speaker C: Yeah.
I think it's more important that you focus on when you make that commitment. When you decide you're going to spend the rest of your life with someone, they are the one. And I think that's the important thing about one, is that when that commitment is made, you've made a commitment between you and God that you're going to do everything within your power to make that relationship work and to make that person your one and only one.
And I think God blesses that.
We'll talk a little bit more about kind of the work you have to put into marriage. But yeah, I don't think you're going to find that perfect one. And I think if you did, if you're in your teens or mid-20s or wherever you're at and you find that one, well, that person's going to change over the next 10, 15, 20 years and they're no longer going to be that exact one that you fell in love with at 13, right, babe?
Thank goodness I'm not still the same person I was at 13 and Sarah didn't fall in love with that one one.
[00:19:42] Speaker B: But yeah, that's great.
[00:19:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I do. I think the idea of the one puts so much pressure on your life. I think it puts also a pressure of like, then when you get married and there's fights and stuff and it's like, well, then I didn't marry the one. And I just think that's a lie. I think it's.
You choose your one and then you make a covenant. And I think so often culture puts the. The pressure of like, marriage is just a piece of paper and it's like, well, no, it's not. Marriage is the covenant with God. It is the promise that I chose the one, and for the rest of my life, it's the three of us trying to get this right.
[00:20:24] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Amen. Well, let's talk about marriage here.
[00:20:28] Speaker A: Anyone interested in marriage in the room? Okay.
[00:20:31] Speaker B: All right, we got two.
But let's talk about what are just some dynamics in marriage that, you know, are kind of maybe easy to fall into that we can avoid, that end up hurting our marriage, and then what are some good dynamics that we can nurture that strengthen marriage over time?
[00:20:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:54] Speaker C: So one of the books that's really helped us is the Seven Principles of Making Marriage Work. And he talks about the Four Horsemen.
[00:21:06] Speaker A: Yeah, the Four. He calls them the Deadly Horsemen.
[00:21:08] Speaker C: The Deadly Horsemen.
[00:21:08] Speaker A: Do you have the list up there?
[00:21:10] Speaker C: He says this is his greatest predictor of divorce. And so I want to read those off, and I've written them down here so I remember them.
[00:21:18] Speaker A: It is criticism, and criticism is this idea that you're attacking your partner's character. It's not just we're fighting about something. You keep leaving the clothes on the floor. It is you're a loser. And so this criticism, it goes deeper, deep to the character. And when you see this kind of criticism in a relationship, it is an indicator that divorce is possible.
[00:21:42] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:21:43] Speaker B: So with that. I'm sorry to interrupt. With that, he makes a good point that in marriage, you'll have complaints.
[00:21:50] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:21:50] Speaker B: And that's okay. Like, hey, you know, you leave the dishes out.
[00:21:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:54] Speaker B: Like, that's perfectly healthy. But when a complaint becomes a critique.
[00:21:58] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:21:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Get some of that danger.
[00:22:00] Speaker A: When a complaint becomes a critique of your character. He must be a pastor.
[00:22:04] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:04] Speaker A: Three Cs, alliteration.
[00:22:06] Speaker B: Let's take the offering.
[00:22:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:09] Speaker C: The next one, also a C, is contempt.
[00:22:13] Speaker A: And contempt, he says, is it's the most dangerous. Because what happens is it's this sarcasm and it's this mocking, but it really, at the heartbeat of. It's a disrespect and a disgust of your partner.
[00:22:29] Speaker C: And then the third one is defensiveness.
[00:22:36] Speaker A: This is a response to criticism. I laugh because I think I'm more defensive, too. We were talking about it earlier, and Jake's like, I'm defensive. And I was like, yeah, but I'm laughing because I think I am, too.
You kind of deny the responsibility and you kind of push it on somebody else. So you're never really fully owning up. You're pushing the blame.
[00:22:55] Speaker C: Yeah. And then the final one is stonewalling.
[00:22:57] Speaker A: And stonewalling is just like you withdraw yourself emotionally. So it's Quiet treatment to a whole new level.
[00:23:05] Speaker C: Yeah. So these are, for me, these are the things that you may potentially start to see in your marriage that are really big, major red flags of you're heading down a very dangerous path. And for time's sake, I'm going to talk just a little bit about the defensiveness.
So for me, when conflict would arise in our marriage, first of all, I would avoid it. But when I did enter into the conversation of conflict, it was always from a very defensive tone. So first of all, I would explain, well, these are the reasons why I did what I did or I didn't do what I didn't do. And, oh, by the way, if you didn't do this, I probably wouldn't have done that. And so it was always this very defensive posture, and it led us into this crazy cycle of continued continually higher and higher levels of unhealth, because the same argument would come up over and over, and it was sort of the same conversation of me being defensive, her being hurt, and often stonewalling. And so I had to, at some point, take a step back. And as a human being that does not enjoy conflict, I usually had to give myself some time. And so it took me a while to ask for that time and say, hey, let me digest this for a minute and take a step back and say, what role do I have to play in this hurt and how can I fix it? How can I fix my portion of this? How can I work on me to make sure I don't create this hurt again and leave it there and trust that in that same conflict, Sarah's heart is doing the same thing, and the Holy Spirit is working on her heart the same way he's working on my heart.
[00:24:56] Speaker A: That's a good point, because I think for so long, I thought I would have to come up with a plan, and then Jacob would have to follow the plan. And it was just. It was a frustrating thing because it was this crazy cycle of us just missing each other and acting in a way that neither of us could respect or really love, you know? So I think for me, in our unhealthiest spot, it would be contempt. So I hated something he did, but I would make sure he knew it, you know, side sideways. I would really make sure he knew what he did. You know what I'm saying? And I.
I would talk about him poorly. I think I've told you guys before, like, we would be out with friends, and it would be like a fun night, and it would be like, it would come out as sarcasm, you Know, like I'm joking obviously, but it wasn't. And I think at the end of the day when you start to unfold the unhealthy in yourself is. It's very revealing because we lose each other's humanity in marriage, I think.
And by that I mean I stop seeing that. Like we're both humans, we're both honestly trying our very best. That he. I think there's so much unseen in the married life.
So he goes to work. I don't know what happens during his day. I don't know the pressure he's under. I don't know the conversations that have been hurtful or like just the weight of having to provide. And so I then am only focusing on my side of the story.
And that can be a lonely place to live. And I think when you start saying, okay, there's humanity, we're both humans, we're both. There's sides to the story that I don't fully know and can't fully, fully understand. But I want to start giving him the benefit of the doubt. I want to start thinking what's best about him.
[00:27:07] Speaker C: We talked about a mutual submission.
[00:27:09] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:27:10] Speaker C: Marriage is really a mutual submission.
[00:27:12] Speaker A: There's this verse in Ephesians 5 and in it it's talking about being imitators of God and how do you be imitators of God? Like, what does that look like? And you look to Jesus Christ and the way that Christ loves is he gave himself away. It was not a selfish love, it was a sacrificial love. And I think what society teaches us is marriage is about me. It's about making me happy, it's about fulfilling my desires, it's about what I can accomplish and get done in marriage. And so it's very self focused. And when you start nurturing the deeper need of. Okay, no. If I really am getting at the heartbeat of what marriage is, it's sacrificial love like husbands and wives should be. I think it's Andy Stanley, he says you should be racing to the back of the line.
How can you put your spouse first? Like, if I'm going to really love Jacob in the way that Christmas Christ loved man, that is selfless love.
[00:28:22] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:28:23] Speaker A: And too often it becomes all about me and all about my needs and all about my desires. And there is a time and a place for that. I do think it's important that we talk about because I want him to be happy. I want to be happy, I want to feel fulfilled. But if we're really, truly going to love Like Christ, then the best thing you can do for your marriage is selfless love. It's sacrificial.
[00:28:52] Speaker C: I think early on when I thought about marriage as a 20 year old, 20 something, I thought about the things I could get. I was gonna get a beautiful bride. I was gonna get someone to come home to every day. I was gonna get a great woman to raise my children. I was gonna get a great cook.
I knew that one.
[00:29:16] Speaker A: My kids, it was spaghetti taco night, we ordered pizza.
[00:29:22] Speaker C: But I thought about all the things I was gonna get and rarely did I think about the things I was gonna give. And as a 43 year old man, my first thought about marriage is what I give to this woman.
And by the grace of God, she has the same thoughts about me. And without seeing, without really putting ourself before Christ and humbling ourselves before him, I don't know that I ever would have got to that thought about marriage.
[00:29:59] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:30:01] Speaker B: I think that like you guys pointed out, our culture is kind of marriage is all about your happiness a million percent. And certainly there is happiness in it. But the Lord's like, it's also about your holiness. And this is a great vehicle that I'm going to use to sanctify you. And it's like. But the more you partner with that, the more actually both those grow together. Allie's grown her holiness a lot.
Just kidding.
[00:30:29] Speaker C: Right up to the alley.
[00:30:31] Speaker B: You were spot on.
[00:30:32] Speaker C: I was, yeah, right.
[00:30:34] Speaker A: Ellie is an actual angel. If you don't know her, she looks like a Precious Moments doll with like the blonde hair. She is an angel. You got lucky, my man.
[00:30:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And here's my best dating advice, guys. Marry up.
[00:30:47] Speaker A: That's the best.
[00:30:49] Speaker B: That's the best advice I can give you.
[00:30:51] Speaker A: Next year we'll interview you and Alex.
[00:30:53] Speaker B: Yeah, that's about all I got.
But let's talk about this. So one of the difficult things about marriage is we're bringing two broken lives together. And you know, you love that person the most, so it also gives you the opportunity to hurt that person the most. And sadly, you know, like, we love God, we love that person, but we'll still fail each other. And sometimes we'll fail each other royally. So how do we deal with failure? How do we deal with moving forward?
What's some thoughts about that, Lucky?
[00:31:30] Speaker A: This is our sweet spot.
[00:31:31] Speaker C: Yeah, we have some practice.
[00:31:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:35] Speaker C: I think to put it simply, if you can take away one thing, own it and move forward. And that, that's easily said but more difficult to accomplish. And I Can share with you some of the one thing that made it, at times, difficult for me to own it and move forward. Number one, I'm a perfectionist. So I never wanted to own my faults. But that's a whole nother conversation for another time. But I think I also didn't want the conflict of that owning it may create. Right. And so I got to the point where it was difficult for me to own it because it was kind of like touching a hot stove.
[00:32:19] Speaker A: I was the hot stuff.
[00:32:21] Speaker C: Well, you're. Yeah, but. But by owning it, I opened myself up to a negative response. And it was the negative response that I was, quite frankly, very scared of. I was fearful of that negative response. I didn't want that from the person that I cared for the most.
And so I had to basically tell myself, I'm going to own it, because that's between me and God, and that's what I need to do. And I'm not going to have an expectation of the response.
And so guys or women or if anybody struggles with this, if you're an individual that doesn't enjoy conflict like me and. And doesn't really enjoy the back and forth of an argument, you may have a little bit of this hot stove situation going on. And I would say tear down the expectations of the response and make it between you and God by owning it. And by entering into that conversation, you're satisfying your relationship with Christ.
And rather than looking to my wife, I'm looking to God in that moment.
[00:33:33] Speaker A: Yeah. I think there's probably experts in books who have some awesome advice. But, like, when I look at mine and Jacob's relationship, I think part of the hardest thing was things would come out little and little and little. And so it was like being hurt over and over and over again.
And we were talking about this idea of. I kind of wish there was, like, moments where when we hurt each other, we just put it all on the table. Instead of, like, worrying so much about the reaction, like, this is for sure gonna cause a divorce, or this is for sure gonna, I don't know, make him hate me, or vice versa, whatever. It might be, like total honesty. It's like ripping off the band aid so you have to deal with the hard thing wants.
Because we would rip the band aid slowly and painfully for years.
And I think in it, like, in that ownership piece of, okay, I hurt you. This is what happened. I'm going to take ownership of it is the allowance, too, of our humanity. If you are in a relationship, you're going to be Disappointed there. It's not if, it's when.
And one of the best pieces of advice of repair was we would always invite God in.
And so it looked like those hardest days, we would sit together in church. And I think a lot of those Sundays I would just cry. And so I always sit in the front row, which makes it real, not noticeable, you know what I'm saying?
But we would sit next to each other and it was just like my only emotion was tears.
And I let it be okay. And he would pray for me at night, or I would pray for him every single night. And so it was in the brokenness and the inviting God in over and over and over again that it not only strengthened our relationship, but our. It strengthened our love and faith in God.
I think we sit here as like, fully devoted followers of Jesus Christ because we went through.
I want to say the bad word. We went through it. You know what I'm saying? But the faithfulness of God's love for us, it encompassed us, it surrounded us.
I'm going to brag on you for a second.
There were a lot of times where we.
We didn't know how to handle it. It was just too much. It was too hard. And we just needed help. And we were in our twenties. I don't even know if you remember this story, but we were in a terrible fight. We had put the kids to bed and Chet showed up at our house and all he wanted to do was pray for us. And he showed up at our house. But when he got there, all the lights were off, so he sat in the driveway. Do you remember this little bit? Okay, well, roll with it.
He sat in the driveway and he prayed for us. And we never knew. I didn't know till months later. And it's like, who you surround yourself with really matters too.
I had friends that were willing to sit in my driveway and pray for us.
I had people in the church who. Ray and Therese. We would go and we would just cry. We would literally trese and I would just cry together. And Ray, they would build us up.
And so I think inviting God in, owning it and then getting help, getting around circles like, the church offers so many things. The first of every month at 9:30, we do a marriage boosters class. And all it is is to inject something good into your marriage.
We have the deeper class of. Do you remember when I pulled the luggage out, if you were here? Like, we all have baggage, and baggage brings wounds. And we have that intimate encounters class. It's like, okay, well, how do we unpack the baggage. I think they're actually going to be doing a lesson at our marriage boosters the first of the month. So whatever the 9:30 service, whatever. So April, whatever they're going to be doing, how do we unpack the baggage? So I highly recommend going to that. It's 9:30. You just go up into our mezzanine. You don't have to sign up or anything. Just show up at 11. All right, thanks, Beck. Becky and Mark, they were also our, our mentors for us that just like time and time again, they showed up for us. You gotta find people who love God and are for you.
I just think it makes all the difference in the world.
[00:38:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Amen. Lean into the community.
[00:38:51] Speaker C: I have one thing to add to that conversation is it's one thing to own it, but then you have to initiate the response. And I think sometimes some of you men can maybe attest to this, that we're not always the best initiators of things. And so it was one thing to own what was happening and not worry about what type of response I was going to get. But then I needed to also initiate the repair. And so marriage boosters is a great place to do that. Sitting in church together is a super easy win. Sarah and I were talking about what an easy win that was when we were younger because you sat for an hour and didn't have to communicate, which at that time it was a win. I didn't have to say anything and the Holy Spirit was speaking to both of us for that hour. So, like, easy win.
But there are a lot of other easy wins. There are plenty of couples here at the church that would. That are always willing to sit down and have dinner with the two of you or meet one on one or whatever it is. But. But I think sometimes, I know in our marriage I failed to initiate some of those healthy processes. So I would encourage specifically you men to be those initiators.
[00:40:15] Speaker A: I think sometimes we can misunderstand scripture and there is the idea of men being leaders in the head of women and really at the heartbeat of that is initiating health.
So when you think about leading your family, it's not an in charge over or your wife is your subordinate. It is you are the initiator of health in your relationship.
[00:40:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, one thing as just someone who knows you guys, what I love about you guys is there's not an ounce in you that will ever quit on each other. And I feel like, you know, for you guys, commitment is through the good and the bad. And it's like the only way out is through. And I think that's awesome.
Well, I think it's honoring to God, and I think it's. It's what. It's the mindset we need to have, you know, for the marriage commitment. So. Well, let's kind of wrap it up with this.
So you guys also do a lot of things that are real. Right. You know, you guys, do. You work hard to build a healthy marriage that is centered on God. That doesn't happen accidentally, that happens intentionally. So if you could just kind of maybe share some things of good practices, good ideas and. And ultimately, like, how. How do we connect with God as we're trying to connect with each other?
[00:41:43] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:41:44] Speaker A: Me, I think I want to brag on Jacob because he is.
He's so great. I'm so thankful that he gets to be my husband. But my kid's dad, Selah's grandpa, he will initiate bigger things for us. So I. There's something about shared values as you get older that heals and strengthens and fortifies your marriage. And so we have.
He who actually initiated it was years and years ago. We went out and we dreamed together and we created values that, like, helped. And I did a whole sermon on that. But we recently did it again. And so we dreamed together for the next, I think, five years. Yeah. But it was like kind of eight because we're thinking till we're 50. And so we're like, okay, our values got us here. It helped us raise our kids. But like, now what are our values that are going to take us to the next 25 years?
And we have two solidified. So our values, two of our values moving forward. We want to do adventure. We want adventure in our work life. We want adventure in our family. We want adventure with one another.
And so I'm excited about that. Doesn't that sound fun? Doesn't that sound great?
And then we. We want to show deep generosity.
So those two values were kind of iffy on the third. So we're going to go back and try to solidify it.
[00:43:27] Speaker C: I was thinking a boat, but.
[00:43:33] Speaker A: But I think, like, I value fun. It is how I'm hardwired. I value spontaneity, and Jake knows that in me. And so he went with the kids to this. It was called Common Grounds. And there was like this four week pottery class. And like, I'm sure the last thing this guy wanted to do was pottery class. But he signed us up and he came home and he was like, babe, we're doing A four week pottery class and we did it. And the pottery's terrible, but we, we like Ghost. You remember the wheel on Ghost? Jake got behind me. I'm just kidding. I was going to bring that up. Just kidding. No, our pots were terrible.
But he initiates stuff that I value.
When we were younger, he got red sticky notes and he called them love notes. And he taught the kids that we leave love notes for each other. And so he would put love notes on the kids doors or their mirrors or my bathroom mirror, my car, the refrigerator. And so I still have these sticky notes all over in my room and my little box of like love notes from, from my kids and love notes from my husband because he initiated that beauty and that health. And so I think if, if you're more mature in your relationship, like one of the things I would highly say is a shared values and shared dreams. Dreams. I just, it's so important and it can be wrapped around finances, it can wrapped around your relationship with God, what you want for your kids, it can be wrapped around it. But those shared dreams and values have driven us back to each other time and time again.
[00:45:22] Speaker C: There's, there's an intimacy there that is natural in those shared dreams and values. And if I, if I can add one thing to this, it's allowing your spouse to have influence with you.
And I think this is so important. And when I was younger, I was definitely pretty self motivated and I was the type of guy that I could get it done on my own. And I probably didn't allow Sarah to influence me as much as I do now. But the reality is she has so many amazing things about her character that I often lack. And so I allow her, and that sounds bad, but I allow her to have influence in my life. I allow her to have influence in my decision making and how I lead at work and what I do here at the church and what a gift that is, what a gift it is to have her strengths and the person that believes in me more than anybody else in the world to speak into my life and say, have you seen it from this direction or what if you try to do it this way? And so I think, and, and she allows me that influence in her life as well.
But I think allowing your spouse to have influence in your life, in your decision making process, in your career.
In Gottman's book, he uses the analogy of the guy's going to buy a used car and, and he says, well, I got to take it to my mechanic first. And the guy says, well, why he Says, because I told my wife I would. And he says, your wife decides, you know, what kind of car you buy. He says, yeah, she has influence on my life. And so it's a great analogy, but I think it's been huge for us. Allowing one another to have influence in the other's life has been huge.
[00:47:21] Speaker B: That's great. Well, real quick, what's one just little challenge to throw out that if you're married here, give us all a little, little challenge we can do this week.
[00:47:32] Speaker A: I, I. If you're married or not.
Game changers for Jacob was. And I was inviting God into our life.
[00:47:44] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:47:45] Speaker A: And so it was awkward to pray together. Like, I grew up Christian. I pray out loud. I've heard other people all the time. But for some reason, it was awkward, and so we wouldn't do it. But we just, we forced ourselves to do it. And the more we did it, the more comfortable it became, the more normal it became. And so, if anything, my challenge to you is pray together before you go to bed. Pray for your spouse before they leave for work.
Just pray together. And I think there's that proverbs that says, lean not on your own understanding, but in all your ways, acknowledge him and he will guide your path. That is the heartbeat of a relationship with your husband and God.
[00:48:31] Speaker C: And I'll throw out one more challenge, a little bit different angle.
My challenge is going to be to spend some time just thinking the best about your partner and really growing your fondness and admiration for your partner. Think back to when you met. Think back to how they interact first interacted with your friends or family that you, you know, made them, made you more, hopefully made you more attracted to them. Unless it was a bad interaction, then don't think about that.
[00:49:01] Speaker B: But.
[00:49:01] Speaker C: But think about some of the fun vacations maybe you've been on, how it felt when you had your first child together. Just spend some time thinking good thoughts about your spouse this week and then tell them the things you thought about.
[00:49:16] Speaker A: Mm.
[00:49:18] Speaker B: Amen. Well, can we give Jacob, Sarah, a round of applause?
And would you guys guys mind praying for all of us and married, dating, single, wherever you're at?
[00:49:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:49:32] Speaker C: Dear heavenly Father, I thank you for the gift of your son. Lord, I thank you for the model of our relationship with him. Father, I thank you for the relationships in our lives that exist now and are yet to come. Father, I pray that they would be honoring to you. I pray that they would be a blessing to the people in this audience and the blessing to those around us. Father, I believe in your divine plan of marriage, Father. And I thank you for this woman sitting next to me. I thank you for the woman that she is. I thank you for this church, Father. I thank you for just the amazing hearts and the support that they give to young couples like us. I pray that you would continue to work in the lives of all people of all ages in this church, Father, that either are in a relationship or are looking for a relationship or previously had a relationship. Father, I pray that you would strengthen them and encourage them. Fill them with all your compassion, grace, mercy, kindness and peace. And I pray all this in your son's name. Amen.
[00:50:44] Speaker B: Thanks, God.
